Meet Ches McDowell – Managing the GR team at Checkmate Government Relations.

[00:00:11] Welcome back to another episode of Political Life. Today we come to you from the state of North Carolina to get an update on everything North Carolina, which obviously there's a lot of news. And first and foremost, we will talk about the hurricane. And with us today is Ches McDowell. And Ches, thank you for coming on and welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:41] Thanks for having me.

[00:00:42] So Ches, just for our listeners, why don't you just take a moment and introduce yourself?

[00:00:50] Sure, sure. Thanks again for the opportunity. I'm Ches McDowell. I'm the managing partner at Checkmate Government Relations in North Carolina.

[00:00:58] I started my political life as an intern for Senate Republican Leader Phil Berger when the Republicans were the minority in North Carolina in 2009.

[00:01:11] I was intern for him for a couple of years. Really enjoyed working with him and working in the North Carolina legislature.

[00:01:19] Decided I wanted to be a lawyer, went to law school, practiced law for a year, decided I didn't want to be a lawyer.

[00:01:24] And I got back into government relations. And it's been an interesting ride. That was about 10 years ago now.

[00:01:31] So we're having a lot of fun, a lot of things going on in North Carolina, especially in a presidential election year.

[00:01:40] Well, welcome. And I guess why don't we, so many topics to start off on, but why don't we, if you can just give us an update on where things stand with the hurricane response.

[00:01:55] This has been an absolutely unbelievable disaster in North Carolina.

[00:01:59] And I think there's been somewhat of a lack of media attention to what's going on, especially from a national standpoint.

[00:02:08] And there's still people up there without power. There's still people without cell phone reception, without Wi-Fi.

[00:02:14] So there's a lot of stories about what's happened from a destruction standpoint that we still don't know.

[00:02:20] So I've been up there once. I'm heading back up there later this week and early next week.

[00:02:27] And it's just a, it's truly an unbelievable thing to witness in person.

[00:02:31] It's hard to explain, even when you've seen the photos, even when you've seen the videos,

[00:02:36] it's hard to really understand the vastness of the damage until you're looking at it.

[00:02:40] And, you know, luckily North Carolina has been very responsible fiscally for the last number of years and has about $5 billion in reserves exactly for situations like this.

[00:02:52] So I think from a, from a recovery standpoint, North Carolina will be a lot better off than other states because of those savings.

[00:02:59] And because of that, that rainy day fund we have in North Carolina, but, but truly from a, just an absolute destruction standpoint, it is very hard to understand and fathom how bad it is.

[00:03:11] Well, it's incredible. And the videos, the fact that you say they don't, they don't really show the whole picture are maybe the, you know, the, some of the worst I've ever seen.

[00:03:20] I mean, the, the, the rivers, the roads are gone, bridges are gone. It's just incredible.

[00:03:24] And the fact that it hit that part of the state is just, just so incredibly unusual.

[00:03:33] But, and, and about for, for those of us that are not from North Carolina, tell us about where the Asheville area is and about how much of the state was really devastated.

[00:03:45] What percentage of the state was hit hard?

[00:03:49] Yeah. So, so North Carolina is, is really three distinct sections.

[00:03:53] We have our, the eastern part of the state, which folks in the eastern part of the state consider themselves their own state, which is a whole nother political issue.

[00:04:01] But that, you know, our coastal area, our coastal plains, then we have kind of the middle of the state where I live, the Piedmont of North Carolina, which has historically been heavy in tobacco, heavy in textiles.

[00:04:11] And, and then you have the western part of the state, which is mountains.

[00:04:14] So part of the reason North Carolina is the greatest state in the union is because you can go to the mountains or the beach within a two hour drive of where I live.

[00:04:21] So, so that's a pretty, pretty special thing.

[00:04:25] But really, I can't remember exactly how many counties have been considered a disaster area, but it's, it's, it's about 20 counties or so that had pretty significant damage.

[00:04:36] You have some of those counties that, and that damage ranges where some of these counties have complete sewer and water systems gone to some, some places that had, had not as bad flooding, not as bad wind damage and things like that.

[00:04:54] But this is the western part of the state, close to the Tennessee border, close to Virginia border, close to South Carolina, in that part of the state.

[00:05:02] But we, you know, one thing that, that's been really incredible has been the private response to this, to the storm.

[00:05:10] Mountain people in North Carolina are, are built different than a lot of others.

[00:05:14] They're very tough.

[00:05:14] They're very resilient.

[00:05:15] They're very, very much wanting to, to help the next person down the road.

[00:05:22] And, and again, you know, I think the recovery is going to be a pretty, it's going to be better than it would be other places.

[00:05:29] But these mountain people are just, are just built different.

[00:05:31] And you've seen resources from all over the country come in.

[00:05:35] And I'm involved with a group of duck hunters in Raleigh, and they organize a 75 people to take 20 pig cookers down there and cook 1500 chickens.

[00:05:45] You know, just things like that.

[00:05:47] Just every time you turn around, the private response has been really remarkable.

[00:05:51] We're also very lucky in North Carolina to have Samaritan's Purse, which is the global standard for disaster relief.

[00:05:56] And this is actually their home.

[00:05:58] They're based in Boone, North Carolina, which is where Appalachian State is, is located in one of the, the really hard hit areas.

[00:06:04] So again, you know, the private response has just been unbelievable.

[00:06:09] The private helicopters that have been in here, people bringing mule teams, four wheelers, tractors, heavy equipment, just, just really unbelievable to witness.

[00:06:19] Yeah, I saw a state senator from Kentucky loading up all of his equipment and his, everything from his farm, about four pieces.

[00:06:27] And he was headed out last night your way.

[00:06:30] So it's just the, the state to state reciprocity and aid has been very personal on a human level, but then more global from that private sector response.

[00:06:41] And you just, you just wrapped up a special session, correct?

[00:06:47] That's right.

[00:06:48] To release some necessary funding.

[00:06:51] Right.

[00:06:51] The General Assembly came in, they were, they were scheduled to come in prior to the hurricane happening.

[00:06:57] So, so this was a regularly scheduled programming, as you can say.

[00:07:02] But with the hurricane happening, obviously that took all the attention and the General Assembly put together pretty quickly a kind of first, first bite at the apple.

[00:07:12] The legislation passed unanimously.

[00:07:14] It was, and everyone has reiterated, this is nowhere near the end all be all.

[00:07:19] This is just the first step.

[00:07:21] And one thing that was really important, and us, us political people certainly care about is how to deal with election administration in these counties.

[00:07:30] You have election workers whose homes have been destroyed.

[00:07:33] You have precincts that have been destroyed.

[00:07:36] And how do we, how do we make sure that all these people have access to voting and, you know, get to operate that sacred right with an election just around the corner.

[00:07:45] Early voting starts on the 17th.

[00:07:49] So we're, we're just around, just around this, from this election and how the General Assembly really went out of their way to address how to deal with that.

[00:07:59] To make sure people are going to be able to vote.

[00:08:06] But they did, they did, they did, they did, they did, they did, they did a significant amount of money.

[00:08:14] But again, no.

[00:08:18] Hey, Chess, we're having trouble with your, your Wi-Fi.

[00:08:26] Can you hear me now?

[00:08:28] Chess?

[00:08:30] I can hear you.

[00:08:32] Okay, you're, you're kind of breaking up.

[00:08:35] So why don't we have you?

[00:08:38] Yeah, exactly.

[00:08:39] And if you, if you could just answer that, that question, again, we will, I'll edit this part.

[00:08:49] Okay, run me the question.

[00:08:51] Go ahead, Maggie, you want to ask him again?

[00:08:52] So the special, the legislature just came back into special session and made a large allocation for the disaster relief.

[00:09:03] And what, what did special session entail?

[00:09:09] Right.

[00:09:10] Right.

[00:09:10] So the, the General Assembly was originally scheduled to, to, to be in session prior to the hurricane.

[00:09:17] They had a couple of dates they were planning on coming back to, to address some, some various pieces of legislation.

[00:09:23] The hurricane obviously became the, the main issue and was, was first and foremost on their agenda.

[00:09:29] They, they passed a piece of legislation that was passed unanimously in both chambers that everyone's been very, very clear and very adamant that this is not the end all be all.

[00:09:40] This is the first piece of legislation that's going to be done to address this crisis.

[00:09:44] Uh, they freed up a significant amount of money, um, to, uh, to quickly get to state agencies to assist with the ongoing kind of more urgent needs.

[00:09:55] Uh, but another thing they address that us political folks, uh, are passionate about and care about is the, um, the election.

[00:10:03] We have an election start early voting starts the 17th, which is six days from now.

[00:10:07] And, um, you had precincts destroyed, you had election workers displaced.

[00:10:11] And so the General Assembly allocated some funds and resources to help, uh, and some new regulations and new policies to help, um, folks deal with how to make sure these people in the mountains are able to, are able to vote and to cast their ballots.

[00:10:27] Um, which is, you know, kind of, it's not something you always think about when it's life and death, but the right to vote is an incredibly important and sacred thing in North Carolina.

[00:10:36] So, uh, it was great to see them, uh, um, try to, try to address that.

[00:10:43] Yeah.

[00:10:44] I thought I read that there were like 13 precincts or 13 election offices impacted.

[00:10:48] That's an incredible amount of, um, constituents.

[00:10:52] So that was really nice to see.

[00:10:55] Absolutely.

[00:10:57] So I reached out a couple of weeks ago, a lot has happened in North Carolina, um, in the last month.

[00:11:04] I reached out to you cause I really wanted you to come on and talk about, um, the number of important, um, races, uh, occurring in your fine state.

[00:11:14] I think I reached out on a Tuesday night and by Wednesday afternoon or Thursday, the CNN piece had come out about your Lieutenant Governor candidate.

[00:11:22] And I feel like it's just been, um, a huge, um, news piece ever since, um, between the, all of the different races, the competitive nature of North Carolina being a swing state.

[00:11:34] So can you just give us an election preview as, as it stands today, um, mid October heading into early voting?

[00:11:42] Um, there, there's just a lot on the ballot this year.

[00:11:47] Sure.

[00:11:48] The, uh, the, the short answer and the most honest answer, you know, despite what they say on Fox or CNN or MSNBC is I don't have a clue.

[00:11:55] And I don't think anybody else does what's going to happen in North Carolina.

[00:11:58] Everything seems to be within the margin of error.

[00:12:01] Um, yeah, I've seen a couple of polls that showed North Carolina as the, uh, somebody called it the swingiest of swing States, uh, in this election.

[00:12:10] And so that, that's very, very interesting.

[00:12:12] North Carolina has always played a unique role, um, in national politics back when we had Jesse Helms and John Edwards in the United States Senate.

[00:12:23] Um, we we've elected Republicans federally and Democrats statewide for, for, for a lot of years.

[00:12:29] We've never had a Republican attorney general.

[00:12:32] Um, we've had a Republican governor for, I think, uh, 16 of the last 150 years.

[00:12:38] I mean, it's, it's a, it's a fascinating state at the same time.

[00:12:41] The Republicans took control of the legislature in 2010 and, uh, have maintained it with most years having super majorities.

[00:12:48] Um, we've had presidential elections, uh, have, have been Republican except for one year for Barack Obama and the, in, in recent memory.

[00:12:56] So it's, it's a fascinating state.

[00:12:59] Um, you know, I, I think, uh, I think we'll continue the trend where people split their votes in North Carolina.

[00:13:05] You had a significant number of people in the last election, but for Donald Trump and Roy Cooper, uh, I'm yet to meet one.

[00:13:12] I'd love to meet them and ask them, uh, you know, how they got to that decision.

[00:13:15] But, um, North Carolina is just unique that way.

[00:13:19] Uh, we we've got, uh, Josh Stein leading in the polls for governor.

[00:13:23] We've got Donald Trump slightly ahead in the polls for president, uh, Lieutenant governor and everything else from their own is going to be, um, you know, kind of a toss up.

[00:13:33] What I've kind of tried to, tried to make sense of, you know, we're all trained in politics and we, we know how to read polls and we all learned about stuff in college.

[00:13:41] But when you try to really make sense to North Carolina elections, it's very difficult, uh, where you have commissioner of insurance, uh, is a Republican commissioner.

[00:13:51] Agriculture is Republican, but the secretary of state's a Democrat.

[00:13:54] Um, the Lieutenant governor's a Republican, but the governor's a Democrat, the attorney general's a Democrat.

[00:13:59] But we have 10 out of 14 congressional districts are nine to 10 are going to be going to be Republican after this election.

[00:14:07] So it's, it's just a complicated state.

[00:14:09] So that's a long way of, uh, really, I don't, I don't know.

[00:14:12] I don't think anybody else does either.

[00:14:15] Well, one known is your brother.

[00:14:18] Do you want to talk about his candidacy and what's happening in, in your family?

[00:14:22] Sure.

[00:14:23] So, uh, the North Carolina six congressional district, uh, my little brother, or I should say younger brother, cause he's got about, about four inches on me.

[00:14:31] Um, but my younger brother, uh, decided to, uh, to answer the call and run for Congress, uh, in December of last year.

[00:14:39] And, uh, you know, back to the, the complicity of North Carolina elections, we've had, uh, various congressional districts over the last 10 years.

[00:14:47] We're, you know, we drew the districts in, in tooth out weed, North Carolina drew the districts in 2010, uh, after the census and, and they've been changed.

[00:14:55] I can't even tell you how many times since then.

[00:14:57] So we've had congressional districts all over the place and, um, they, they seem to change about every cycle.

[00:15:04] Uh, this, this time, uh, they came out with maps and, um, it was, uh, my family's from Davidson County, North Carolina, the geographical center of the state and, uh, the barbecue capital of the universe.

[00:15:17] And that district really, uh, really catered to somebody from Davidson County to run.

[00:15:21] Davidson County hasn't had us, had a U S uh, congressman since the 1960s.

[00:15:26] Um, my, my brother looked at it and we kind of talked about it as a family and, and he wanted to take a, take a stab at it.

[00:15:33] President Trump agreed.

[00:15:34] He was the best candidate, uh, in the primary and, uh, received the Trump endorsement.

[00:15:39] He won, uh, I think it was 27 to 24 were the, the top two vote getters.

[00:15:45] You had to get over 30 to avoid a runoff.

[00:15:49] Um, and the guy that came in second place, uh, former Congressman Mark Walker decided not to call for a runoff, uh, which, which led to Addison winning the, winning the primary.

[00:15:59] And since then, or prior to that, no Democrat filed.

[00:16:03] Um, so he'll be the only name on the ballot, uh, in November and I will be going to Congress.

[00:16:09] So I'm, I'm excited as his brother.

[00:16:11] I'm excited as a Davidson County, uh, native and excited, uh, as a North Carolinian.

[00:16:18] He's going to join your outgoing speaker, Tim Moore, uh, presumably in that freshman class.

[00:16:24] And you'll have some change at the legislature as well.

[00:16:27] That's right.

[00:16:28] That's right.

[00:16:29] There's actually a really great group of, uh, freshman congressmen coming from North Carolina.

[00:16:33] Uh, Brad Knott over in the, uh, near Raleigh and Raleigh East, Pat Harrigan, uh, Winston-Salem and, and West, uh, all really four great individuals that, uh, I think will be a very, very positive benefit to North Carolina.

[00:16:48] But like you said, we're going to have a new speaker of the house, uh, come January in North Carolina.

[00:16:53] Uh, it looks like that's been agreed to, uh, it's going to be Dustin Hall.

[00:16:58] Dustin Hall's a wonderful guy.

[00:17:00] And, uh, as a, as a young, young person myself, I like when young people, uh, get to those positions of power.

[00:17:06] So, so Dustin's a wonderful guy and a sharp lawyer.

[00:17:09] And I think he'll be a very good speaker for North Carolina.

[00:17:13] I also, I, I'm, I always like to examine kind of the path that, uh, an ascending leader takes to that post.

[00:17:20] And I was impressed.

[00:17:22] He was rules chairman.

[00:17:23] And then he was actually one of those chief authors, I believe of your maps, um, which is such a tough job and politically hard.

[00:17:31] Um, so I, I've just always been very impressed with him, um, and look forward to, to seeing again, what a, uh, a fellow kind of younger person does, uh, in that role.

[00:17:42] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:17:43] And, and he's just a, just a really a thoughtful guy and a very, very, very smart lawyer.

[00:17:48] Um, and like I said, I think he'll be a, he'll be a great benefit.

[00:17:52] Uh, I think he'll get along well with the Senate leadership and, and hopefully, uh, when the House and Senate leadership get along well, that means lobbyists get to go on vacation in the summer.

[00:18:02] So, so we're all excited about that.

[00:18:04] And so how, uh, uh, when does the session begin for you and, and, uh, how does it look?

[00:18:12] Well, we, we, we, we got to get through the election and know exactly how it's going to look.

[00:18:15] You know, the big question, uh, legislatively is whether the Republicans will maintain their super majorities, uh, as has kind of been the entire, the, the entire cycle.

[00:18:26] Josh Stein has been leading Mark Robinson in the polls.

[00:18:28] Uh, so assuming, assuming those polls are correct and Josh Stein is going to be governor.

[00:18:33] Well, once again, as we have for the last eight years, have a legislature of one party, a House of one party, Senate one party, and a governor of a different party.

[00:18:43] Um, so that's, uh, that's always fun and always exciting and leads for some, some interesting, interesting politics and interesting conversations.

[00:18:53] But the big question is going to be whether the Republicans maintain those super majorities, uh, in, in the House and the Senate.

[00:19:01] And, uh, you, you ask kind of when session's going to start.

[00:19:04] And I guess it really depends on that.

[00:19:06] If there's, uh, if the Republicans don't maintain the super majorities, I think we'll likely see them come back this fall and address some things, uh, where they can override a veto, uh, where if they lose the super majorities, they're not going to be able to, if there's a Josh Stein administration.

[00:19:21] So most likely, uh, sometime this fall, we'll see them come back.

[00:19:25] And, uh, if, uh, if not, if they maintain the super majorities, I think we'll, we'll see them back next year.

[00:19:31] Oh, interesting.

[00:19:33] And if they don't maintain the super majority, um, what issues do you think they'll take up this fall?

[00:19:39] If you know.

[00:19:41] Yeah, I mean, that's a, that's a good question.

[00:19:43] There's North Carolina is also, um, unique in the way that, uh, Elizabeth Dole used to say that there's the Bible Belt,

[00:19:49] but North Carolina is the buckle and, you know, some of the hot topics over the last couple of years have been around gaming,

[00:19:55] have been around medical marijuana.

[00:19:57] Um, and those are kind of the big issues that have been, been taken up a lot of, a lot of airspace.

[00:20:03] Of course, those are issues that are, are very much bipartisan.

[00:20:07] Um, so I don't, I don't necessarily know that, uh, Republican super majority is required for any kind of gaming legislation or any kind of medical cannabis legislation.

[00:20:15] But, um, it's hard to, hard to know what else they'd be interested in taking up.

[00:20:20] But, um, the Republican legislature and a Democratic governor have been, been fighting over issues of, of, uh, who does what inside of state government for eight years.

[00:20:30] So, uh, more of the same there.

[00:20:33] And on the ballot, uh, so the ballot in North Carolina, you have the, the presidential race, you have the governor's race.

[00:20:40] And then what will you see on the ballot after that, before you get to, uh, uh, down to the local races?

[00:20:47] Well, you actually have the, uh, the president, then, uh, U S Congress.

[00:20:51] We don't have a U S Senate race, then the governor.

[00:20:54] Uh, so you have the two federal races at the top, uh, and then, uh, governor, Lieutenant governor, attorney general.

[00:21:01] Um, I think secretary of state comes after that.

[00:21:04] I'm not entirely sure, but we have, um, I believe every council state race is contested with the auditor.

[00:21:09] Uh, that's a, that's an open seat, uh, state treasurer.

[00:21:14] Uh, that's an open seat.

[00:21:16] Um, we had, uh, the, the superintendent of public instruction lost the primary.

[00:21:22] So that's an open seat as well.

[00:21:25] Uh, commissioner agriculture has a long time incumbent.

[00:21:28] Uh, so there, there's a lot of, a lot of excitement going on down the ballot.

[00:21:32] If you care very much about the insurance industry, or, uh, if you're involved in, uh, dealing with the commissioner of labor, um,

[00:21:38] or in the education system in North Carolina.

[00:21:41] So there, there's a significant number of races, including some judges.

[00:21:44] And at the very, very bottom are the, the lowly state legislators, um, who really, really have, have the most power in North Carolina constitutionally.

[00:21:53] Yeah, boy, that's a, uh, that's a full ballot.

[00:21:56] Um, a lot of statewide offices are up.

[00:22:00] Absolutely.

[00:22:02] So you founded your firm, I think it was earlier this year or late last year, forgive me for not remembering the specific month.

[00:22:09] But, um, what made you want to kind of hang, hang a new shingle and, um, how did you approach, you know, launching a business?

[00:22:19] Yeah.

[00:22:20] So it was December of last year.

[00:22:22] Um, prior to that, I'd been with a multinational law firm, um, that, that I still have a significant amount of respect for.

[00:22:29] I, uh, it's, it's kind of a funny story how I ended up there.

[00:22:32] Uh, I was working in the bankruptcy court, the United States bankruptcy court in Raleigh as a, uh, as a federal clerk.

[00:22:38] Uh, for a bankruptcy judge.

[00:22:41] And, uh, I'd spent a year typing orders and researching the law and looking through the big dusty books and, and all that stuff.

[00:22:49] And the, the issue of Sunday hunting came up in North Carolina.

[00:22:52] And it was an issue that I cared about passionately just as a, just as an individual, just as a citizen and a sportsman.

[00:22:59] And, uh, I'd been following it for a number of years, but it finally started to happen while I was working for the federal government and the judiciary.

[00:23:05] And when you work in the judiciary, you're not allowed to even have a bumper sticker on your car or have any, you know, absolutely no politics whatsoever, uh, as a federal employee.

[00:23:16] So that was very difficult to watch, you know, a very important issue to me personally and not be able to, not be able to do anything.

[00:23:22] Uh, but my main issue, uh, personally, the main thing I want to do was to move back to the Piedmont, move back to Davidson County, raise a family, uh, with, with some land.

[00:23:30] And, uh, being, uh, my kids being able to grow up the way I did.

[00:23:34] Uh, so I was aggressively looking for, um, for legal jobs back this way.

[00:23:39] Uh, I got introduced to a guy who ran a big law firm.

[00:23:43] Uh, and at the same time I decided I, I, I was going to go into lobbying.

[00:23:48] I never really considered it, uh, working for Senator Berger when he was in the minority.

[00:23:53] The Republicans were in the minority for, since the civil war.

[00:23:56] So, you know, lobbyists didn't come by lobbyists.

[00:23:59] You didn't need the Republicans.

[00:24:00] You didn't need the minority party.

[00:24:02] And, uh, so I didn't really have a whole lot of exposure to lobbyists when I was working at the legislature.

[00:24:07] It just wasn't really something I thought about.

[00:24:09] When that issue of Sunday hunting came up and I started paying attention to it and seeing the lobbyists and seeing how they, how they educated folks on the issues.

[00:24:17] Um, I kind of decided that I wanted to, wanted to go into lobbying.

[00:24:22] At the same time, I had this meeting with, uh, with this attorney in Winston-Salem at this big law firm.

[00:24:27] And I went to see him and I, we sat down for lunch.

[00:24:29] And the first thing I said was, I don't want to waste your time.

[00:24:32] I'm actually not interested in a bankruptcy, uh, bankruptcy job at your firm.

[00:24:36] And he said, well, that's good news.

[00:24:37] I said, why is that?

[00:24:38] He said, we don't have any bankruptcy lawyers.

[00:24:40] He said, what do you want to do?

[00:24:41] I said, well, actually, I'm going to start my own, my own lobbying firm.

[00:24:43] And he said, well, how about you do that here?

[00:24:45] Cause we, we, we would like to start a government relations arm.

[00:24:48] Uh, so I did and, uh, was there for about eight years, wonderful, eight wonderful years with a lot of really good people.

[00:24:54] Um, but it just, it got to a point where, um, when the law firm is, is so big, you run into a lot of conflicts.

[00:25:02] You run into a lot of bureaucracy, which really isn't conducive to lobbying when you have to be nimble.

[00:25:08] And when a client calls on, on Tuesday to hire you for a bill that's coming in committee on Wednesday,

[00:25:13] you really don't have two weeks to negotiate an engagement letter with 30 lawyers.

[00:25:17] And so, um, we just decided it was, it was probably the best fit to go out on our own.

[00:25:22] Um, what my entire team came with me, seven people, uh, every client came with us and we just kept on going like,

[00:25:29] like nothing had happened.

[00:25:30] And it's been a really good move.

[00:25:34] What's your favorite legislative battle you've ever been in?

[00:25:38] Uh, probably the top 10 or the 10 that no one knows about, uh, the ones that happened behind the scenes.

[00:25:44] So I can't spill the beans on any of those yet, but certainly the, uh, yeah, Sunday hunting was really important.

[00:25:51] Uh, it was really important to me.

[00:25:53] And it's even more important to me now that was 2015, uh, even more important to me now as a father,

[00:25:59] I've got a two seven-year-olds and a three-year-old who I love to take hunting and I love to spend time with them in the woods.

[00:26:06] And, um, you know, now we've got baseball and softball all day on Saturday.

[00:26:11] We've got a million other obligations on Saturdays and having that time on Sundays is really important to,

[00:26:18] to be able to, to share that time in the woods with them.

[00:26:21] So from a personal standpoint and a, a public policy standpoint, I think that is the,

[00:26:26] the crown jewel of what we've been able to accomplish in North Carolina for me personally.

[00:26:31] Um, uh, of course, tax rates are great, but they're not nearly as, nearly as sexy or near,

[00:26:36] nearly as sentimental as being able to hunt with my kids.

[00:26:38] Um, probably the most, uh, the most intense battle we had, uh, was around sports betting.

[00:26:46] And that was a, that was a fascinating issue that changed so much over the course of the four years that we worked on it.

[00:26:55] Uh, when we started, we start the first conversation where everybody kind of got in the same room

[00:27:01] was all of the sports teams, all of the sports leagues, uh, all of the Native American tribes.

[00:27:08] We got together in Cherokee, North Carolina, which has now been devastated.

[00:27:13] And sat down and said, what is this?

[00:27:15] What is a good sports betting, sports betting legislation look like?

[00:27:19] And we all came to an agreement in principle.

[00:27:21] Uh, and that was, it took four years from that meeting to, to finally pass the bill.

[00:27:25] But when we started, and I've, I've joked about this since, uh, all the people that were in that room,

[00:27:31] which really represented all of the sports and gaming interests in North Carolina,

[00:27:35] no one was in the same job by the time we passed the bill.

[00:27:40] The general counsel for the hurricanes was new.

[00:27:42] The general counsel for the hornets was new.

[00:27:44] In fact, uh, the, the, the Panthers had different owners from the time we started to when we ended.

[00:27:50] The bill sponsor retired and from where we started to where we ended, a new tribe was recognized in North Carolina,

[00:27:56] built a casino from the time we started to the time we finished.

[00:27:59] And so it was just a really fascinating, uh, fascinating journey to get where we got.

[00:28:06] You also had, uh, when we started in North Carolina, the Supreme court had just ruled on sports betting.

[00:28:11] And so it was a new thing.

[00:28:13] I think when we started, there was like four or five States that had done it.

[00:28:16] By the time we ended, it was like 40.

[00:28:18] And so you had a lot of best practices getting figured out as we're going along.

[00:28:23] Like, hang on a minute.

[00:28:24] This was in the original bill, but we've seen this not work in West Virginia or New Jersey, whatever we need to,

[00:28:29] we need to do this.

[00:28:31] And so from a policy standpoint, it was really fascinating to watch how that changed,

[00:28:37] watch how opinions changed at the legislature.

[00:28:41] Um, you know, you've got very, very conservative, religious, rural members in North Carolina,

[00:28:47] and you have, uh, you know, liberal urban members in North Carolina, both sides of which are opposed to gambling.

[00:28:54] And then you have, you have that big chunk in the middle that you got to make sure you get a majority of,

[00:28:59] but it was a, it was a fascinating battle.

[00:29:01] And that was probably the, probably my favorite one.

[00:29:06] Everybody changed, but Chess McDowell.

[00:29:11] In fact, the, the, the chief of the Cherokees, uh, when we had that meeting, he was, uh, he was chief.

[00:29:18] We had the meeting, got thrown out as chief and then, uh, then got reelected as chief.

[00:29:23] So he was chief when we started as chief, what do we finish?

[00:29:26] So I would joke that me and him were the only two who were there from that original meeting.

[00:29:33] Well, Jim, do you have any other questions or you want me to capstone it?

[00:29:38] Okay.

[00:29:38] Um, so we always like to ask, uh, our guests, um, who are frequent, uh, travelers for, for work and fun.

[00:29:46] Where were you last?

[00:29:48] Where did you travel to last?

[00:29:50] And what was the best meal you had or the best restaurant that you'd pass on others?

[00:29:54] And where are you headed to next?

[00:29:56] Um, so that if someone wants to reach out to you on LinkedIn, they can, um, send you a slide into your LinkedIn DMS and, uh, give you a restaurant tip, um, on for your travels.

[00:30:09] Well, I will, I will venture to say that, uh, you've never had this answer before.

[00:30:14] So my last trip was to the Yukon in Alaska on a moose hunt.

[00:30:20] And, um, it took seven planes to get there.

[00:30:23] I didn't see another person other than the two guides and my hunting partner for, uh, for 10 days.

[00:30:29] So, uh, restaurants were, we were really excited when we broke into the two boxes of Kraft macaroni and cheese that we had.

[00:30:37] Um, other than that, it was a lot of hot dogs and a lot of moose meat.

[00:30:41] So I, I can't really give a recommendation up there, but I would say, I would say if you're going to the Yukon, pack some, pack some pop tarts or something.

[00:30:49] Uh, cause we'll really, really enjoy those.

[00:30:51] Um, next trip, uh, let's see.

[00:30:56] I think, um, I'll actually be in New Mexico on Elk Hunt.

[00:30:59] So, uh, in Chama, New Mexico.

[00:31:02] So there's about three taco shacks.

[00:31:04] If anybody's got a recommendation on the best taco shack in Chama, New Mexico, I'll hit it.

[00:31:08] I'll, I'll take them, I'll, uh, take them up on it.

[00:31:11] Incredible.

[00:31:12] You're, you're a good traveler.

[00:31:14] Those are good spots.

[00:31:16] They're good spots and not a lot of people, which is the best part, but thanks to Elon Musk.

[00:31:20] You can't get away anymore.

[00:31:23] Well, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:31:26] We're, we're thinking of North Carolina.

[00:31:28] Um, it has been quite the month, um, since I first reached out to you.

[00:31:33] I just can't believe how much has happened.

[00:31:35] Um, but we're thankful that you were able to, to get wifi and get on and, and chat with

[00:31:41] us and share with our audience.

[00:31:42] Um, the, a great election preview and, and what's to come, um, in the great state of

[00:31:47] North Carolina.

[00:31:48] So thanks, Jess.

[00:31:49] Oh, absolutely.

[00:31:50] And I just want to, uh, appreciate the opportunity.

[00:31:53] And if anybody listening and feels so led, uh, look up Samaritan's Purse, send them a couple

[00:31:58] bucks.

[00:31:59] They're, they're really doing a phenomenal job in North Carolina.

[00:32:02] Um, we were matching donations from our clients.

[00:32:05] So if, uh, any of my clients are listening, send us some money.

[00:32:08] We'll match it and get it to Samaritan's Purse, but, uh, thank you again for the opportunity.