How do you get a job on Capitol Hill? Take a sabbatical and move to Washington, DC - meet Amy Efantis who did just that and has never looked back.

[00:00:11] Welcome back to another episode of The Political Life. Today we come to you back to the DC area.

[00:00:22] Technically, I think our guest Amy Efantis from Ascension. I always call it Ascension Healthcare.

[00:00:29] I'll have to ask Amy whether or not that's correct. Ascension is a healthcare company,

[00:00:38] essentially hospitals located in I think over 15 states. She can tell us exactly

[00:00:46] around the country and if you are in a state with one of their hospitals, you're probably very familiar

[00:00:51] with them. But I think technically she is in Maryland but we will find out. Amy and of

[00:00:59] course Maggie Mick is here with me. Amy welcome to the show. Thank you. It's great to be with

[00:01:05] you Jim and Maggie. So Amy why don't you start off by just introducing yourself to our listeners.

[00:01:15] Tell them a little bit about yourself and your career if you want. Excellent. Thank you. So my

[00:01:24] career started, I grew up in Grand Bay, Wisconsin and I went to college in Madison, Wisconsin.

[00:01:33] And excuse me, my master's degree or I went through a professional program for educators. So

[00:01:39] in secondary education and started out my career in teaching. And I was a high school teacher

[00:01:45] for four years and enjoyed it very much. Taught history and government but really wanted to

[00:01:53] see what that looked like in action. And so I got a leave of absence from my job for a year.

[00:01:59] I went to Washington. I didn't have a job and I walked the halls looking at

[00:02:06] different offices in the Wisconsin delegation and I wanted to, at that time I was very interested

[00:02:14] in working for a Democrat and I walked into the office of Congressman Tom Barrett

[00:02:19] and was fortunate enough that there was a staff assistant job available open and

[00:02:26] the front desk was open. The front desk was open and I remember the chief of staff saying,

[00:02:32] you know, you've been a teacher is this really going to challenge you enough? And I said, I'm

[00:02:37] very hungry to learn. So that involved a cut in pay and going from a nine or 10 month work

[00:02:44] schedule to a 12 month work schedule. But within that first year it became very clear that

[00:02:49] there would be the president at that time was Bill Clinton and that there was going to be an

[00:02:55] impeachment. And Tom Barrett was on, I believe at that time it was called oversight and government

[00:03:01] reform and he had kind of made a name for himself. And if you'll recall tragically Congressman

[00:03:08] Sonny Bono was killed in a skiing accident. And then that seat was sort of was taken by his wife

[00:03:18] Mary Bono and she came to Congress very interested in a seat on the judiciary committee

[00:03:25] recognizing that there would very likely be an impeachment. And so they needed to balance the

[00:03:30] other side with a Democrat and my boss got a seat on judiciary and all of a sudden, you know,

[00:03:38] we're in the middle of an impeachment hearing of the president and it was amazing. And

[00:03:44] after that I was not going back to the farm, the proverbial so I was booked on DC.

[00:03:51] And I worked for Tom for a little over four years and ended up doing his healthcare work

[00:04:00] when he was assigned to energy and commerce with very little background in healthcare apart

[00:04:05] from my own experiences as a patient. It was a steep learning curve but I learned a lot about

[00:04:14] you know, Medicare Medicaid and it was eye opening to say the least

[00:04:22] to recognize how Byzantine I think it's not really a healthcare system right it's just

[00:04:27] a hodgepodge of different components that sometimes work together and sometimes don't but

[00:04:36] but so when Tom ran for governor I moved to a freshman office Congressman Archer Davis

[00:04:46] from Alabama and although we were the same age he was you know, Harvard double domer who had

[00:04:53] gotten a law degree at Harvard and was a definite overachiever whereas I was not so much so

[00:05:01] it but it was a great fit and I was hired as this legislative director and

[00:05:06] learned a lot working for him he was ended up eventually on the ways and means committee and

[00:05:13] so again I saw healthcare from another dimension. And when I left for Tours office my first job

[00:05:22] outside of Congress was with pharma which was a terrific place to sort of cut my teeth

[00:05:29] and lobbying and then from there I went to Beringer Engelheim where I spent about eight years and

[00:05:36] it was tremendous because of course Beringer is an interesting company it's a family owned

[00:05:43] company and so seeing the pharma world through that lens was fascinating and from BI I moved

[00:05:52] to Biogen to a U.S. company really different experience quarterly earnings are everything right

[00:05:59] and of course we were dealing with things like newborn screening which was just

[00:06:06] that was an incredibly rewarding experience but also the challenges of adjucane you

[00:06:11] happen to in its development this was before it was you know the controversy around

[00:06:18] what we were building up to that so that was a great learning experience too

[00:06:22] and then I left Biogen to go to the Plasma Protein Therapeutics Association and I was leading

[00:06:30] PPTA which is a small trade association but very significant because it's the

[00:06:38] collectors and manufacturers of products made from human plasma I had been a plasma donor

[00:06:44] in college and so this meant something to me I understood how important donation was but then

[00:06:52] seeing it really in action was profound and how much those patients depend on the goodwill of

[00:07:01] donors and it was that was incredible and of course that the most challenging part was

[00:07:07] being there during a pandemic and then from PPTA I was at GSK so I was back in pharma

[00:07:14] GSK was you know is a wonderful British based company so again publicly traded but

[00:07:22] ex-US headquartered and that's a different lens again on pharma and then most recently I joined

[00:07:32] Ascension and I'm very excited to work in Catholic healthcare and for the hospitals so

[00:07:39] I've seen healthcare from a lot of different perspectives I'm still not convinced we have

[00:07:43] a healthcare system but I'm excited to be a part of it. Well some incredible jobs

[00:07:51] really some what great experience so two questions one so how long did you end up

[00:07:57] spending on the hill and why don't you tell us a little bit about what it was like working for

[00:08:02] the plasma association during the pandemic. Okay great well I was on the hill for the better part

[00:08:11] of eight years and you know working on the hill is amazing because I think people don't appreciate

[00:08:22] how much power staffers have and that's sort of contrasted against not so great hey

[00:08:35] so it tends to be younger people but it's a tremendous place to learn and it was a great

[00:08:43] learning experience I mean and I met all kinds of cool people working on the hill not just

[00:08:47] members of congress but people like you know Michael McDonald and the cast of the West Wing

[00:08:55] and Carol King and I mean the list is extensive my kids are always sort of gobsmacked at the

[00:09:02] people I've met I think they think I'm friends with all of them of course none of these people

[00:09:07] remember me but um but then just don't just don't dispel your children of the the idea that

[00:09:14] yes Carol King and I are our best friends but you know watching the the significant bills that were

[00:09:23] passed while I was there and and watching the formation of Medicare Part D and it was an amazing

[00:09:31] time to be on the hill and although it didn't pass being there during the discussions on

[00:09:35] patients bill of rights we've seen you know the arc of that has resulted in a lot of reforms

[00:09:41] that have come to fruition which have been huge benefits for patients so it was it was exciting

[00:09:49] and it was monumental in many ways to be there and I was also working on the hill during 9-11 so

[00:09:57] it was from a sort of from a place of growth both intellectually emotionally spiritually

[00:10:06] it was an amazing time to be there and then I think to your second question Jim about PPTA so

[00:10:15] when I joined PPTA it's it's an interesting organization because there is a limited number

[00:10:22] of sort of their global board it's just a handful of companies but the collectors are numerous

[00:10:29] so that's a separate board that's part of PPTA and they're collectors all over the world

[00:10:35] and that's why it's a global organization and of course you know we were moving along thinking

[00:10:44] like everyone else that we all had plans and then suddenly 2019 happened and all those plans

[00:10:53] changed and what was I think most gratifying about that experience was that it was so collective

[00:11:02] you know that we shared this it was the great equalizer everyone was impacted and in the same way

[00:11:09] we all had to shut down and but the impact it had to plasma was sort of more austere I will say

[00:11:19] than a lot of other industries because the patients particularly who rely on those medicines

[00:11:26] to treat things like immune deficiencies those medicines it's very tenuous and so they when

[00:11:34] somebody sits in a chair and has a needle put in their arm to donate plasma that plasma is turned

[00:11:44] into a medicine and put into someone else's you know usually inside of a year and ensuring that

[00:11:52] there's continuity there is everything and of course people weren't donating plasma during that

[00:11:58] time and so there was a it required a major effort on the part of those companies which did heroic

[00:12:04] work in increasing and in reaching out and finding donors and the Department of Health and Human

[00:12:11] Services and the general public and I think it was it was an effort that spoke for itself

[00:12:20] because we didn't see huge shortages which was great and that was fair and I think you all remember that

[00:12:29] the there was plasma was sort of front and center for a short period of time in discussions on the

[00:12:35] treatment of COVID as well and continues to play a role in research so that was exciting

[00:12:42] and extremely challenging but also just you know that I would say at the end the payout of that was

[00:12:51] I'm so grateful to have been a part of that. So you recently took the new role at Ascension

[00:13:00] can you tell our audience more about Ascension and I think more pointedly you had said that it

[00:13:09] was a calling to make the decision to cross over and you've spent a lot of your career

[00:13:14] on the pharmaceutical side of the industry what was that calling that pulled you to Ascension

[00:13:21] in addition to just being a great employer and corporate citizen? Yeah that's so that's a great

[00:13:28] question and I think in healthcare I'm sure a lot of people are aware that people tend to look

[00:13:35] at healthcare in terms of segments and the segments often there's a lot of civil war among

[00:13:42] the segments within healthcare which makes it particularly interesting and I'll never lose

[00:13:51] the admiration that I have for what the biopharma industry does because it's value added

[00:13:57] and it's saving people every day and medicines keep people out of the hospital

[00:14:02] and it's a huge part of prevention. I think what particularly called me about Ascension was

[00:14:11] that its mission is it's an extremely poignant mission that's lived every day and I've never seen

[00:14:23] this in any organization before where everyone I meet at Ascension is deep in the mission and

[00:14:29] is constantly sharing it through the sort of lens of what they're doing today.

[00:14:37] They're always talking about mission and how important it is. I was you know my family and I

[00:14:43] are practicing Catholics that's not such a popular thing today and I almost feel like

[00:14:50] I'm able to sort of come out as a kid and at Ascension I can be- Hey my kids go to Catholic

[00:14:55] school you're among friends. Yeah and but there is a sense I think even among my family and friends

[00:15:08] who were raised Catholic that there is some dissonance between if you're someone who is

[00:15:14] intellectual and cares about people that there is that disconnect I don't see that at all and I'm

[00:15:20] proud of my faith and it's been extremely refreshing to work at Ascension and have that

[00:15:30] sense throughout the organization and of course a lot of people at Ascension are not Catholic

[00:15:36] and aren't expected to be in and that's part of what makes Ascension great but it's the mission

[00:15:42] that is so amazing to me. So there's over 141 hospitals and I think the work that

[00:15:50] you know there's Ascension does a lot of charity care and I had the privilege to visit some hospitals

[00:16:01] in Wichita, Kansas this week and it's eye-opening to go into the emergency room of a hospital

[00:16:11] that does a lot of care for people who don't otherwise have access to healthcare it's very

[00:16:17] eye-opening and I think for those of us I live in the DC area I'll be really candid with you when

[00:16:23] someone in my family gets sick we're cherry picking the best hospital and we go there and we

[00:16:29] friends were doctors there and that's we have that privilege but most people don't

[00:16:35] and so it's really important to recognize that need in our communities and I love that Ascension

[00:16:43] is part of addressing that need. You had mentioned Maya Martinez Davis as being a friend and mentor

[00:16:52] that you learned a lot from what were the lessons that you learned I'm always so curious

[00:16:57] about mentor-minty relationships and just how we help each other grow in our profession just

[00:17:05] what did you learn from her and what's a shout out to her if she's listening to this podcast?

[00:17:12] Well first of all I mean Maya you know she I continue to lean on her for that role as mentor

[00:17:20] but Maya is fascinating she's first of all I think her greatest strength is that she's an

[00:17:34] amazing 30 year-old and she's the most excellent person in the future and I think that's one of

[00:17:34] the things that we do for with the family especially when in a supervisory role to look at

[00:17:36] ourselves our team one as the people who work for us this is my team one this is my team

[00:17:43] but the truth is that is not your team your team one are your peers

[00:17:47] and I think the reason we thought and that was a challenge for me and the reason we default to

[00:18:00] to you, it's more difficult with your peer group and who will hold you accountable in a different way.

[00:18:09] So that was so valuable for me that that team that we shared at GSK that Maya built.

[00:18:20] And the second thing is that she's someone who's a big believer in getting people,

[00:18:26] the right people in the right job, the right time. And that talent is everything, developing

[00:18:36] talent is important and then finding the right talent. And it's critical to have the

[00:18:44] right mix of people to get done what you need to do. And so I feel like when I look back at

[00:18:53] the team that I was able to build at GSK, I left there feeling like that was

[00:19:00] the best team I'd ever built and the best team I'd ever worked with. So my peer group, that team one,

[00:19:09] that's not easy to do. But I'm also a firm believer that we should challenge ourselves

[00:19:15] constantly. I think as women, especially women of a particular age, I think I'm part of really

[00:19:22] the first generation of women who is that there weren't women before me who have built

[00:19:31] incredible careers that have spanned decades. But I'm the first, I think, generation of women

[00:19:37] that sort of makes up roughly half of our workforce who's working until retirement.

[00:19:44] And that's a different kettle of fish because we've, you know, now we've raised kids,

[00:19:49] now we're launching them into college. And that's a different dynamic when it comes to your career,

[00:19:57] because there's not a lot of past role modeling. Yes. It's kind of pioneering that.

[00:20:06] So I've challenged myself to try new things and to take on new challenges when they come up.

[00:20:12] And sometimes, you know, it's been a huge success. And sometimes it's been enormous challenges.

[00:20:20] And sometimes it's been both. Yeah, I would comment on that too, that the generation right before

[00:20:27] you were the pioneers in politics and policy. They are the women who were either elected or

[00:20:33] became the first heads or the first firm leaders, etc. And they had a lot of weight to carry,

[00:20:39] to do that. I think that they were so forward facing to charge ahead that sometimes the mentee

[00:20:48] mentor relationship was lost because they were doing the work. And so for your generation, kind of that

[00:20:53] 10 years behind and then I'm 10 years probably behind you, my generation in the 40s and 30s,

[00:21:00] we are so focused on how do we develop the 20 somethings and the 30 somethings because

[00:21:06] we didn't receive necessarily that kind of pulling us along. We were still kind of pulled along by

[00:21:14] men leaders in the workforce. So I'm so glad that is a key focus of you, of your career is to

[00:21:22] build up women because you're right, the generation right in front of you, they were just so

[00:21:27] focused on doing the work and building the careers that it was hard to bring others along.

[00:21:32] We just kind of got to watch and emulate versus learn directly from.

[00:21:37] Yeah, I completely agree with that. I had a mentor at Beringer Engelheim who remains a friend of

[00:21:44] mine Marla Persky. She was our general counsel. And I remember Marla told me one time she said

[00:21:51] the mark of a successful leader is when someone you've hired surpasses you.

[00:21:59] Yes. And it's a glory to see. I agree with that. I mean, I've had a couple of colleagues who have

[00:22:06] just gone on to do amazing things and I'm so proud of them. I love seeing that growth and that

[00:22:14] success. And I think I have a lot of women friends who they're big on celebrating each other's

[00:22:23] success. So I feel like and I've had male mentors too who have done that. So I'm really,

[00:22:28] I feel very fortunate in that sense. So you've had to join many different teams over your career.

[00:22:38] And I would imagine that some of the teams you just plug into and other teams you're brought on to

[00:22:45] build a team, as you said. How has it been adapting and joining Ascension

[00:22:56] in your current team? Well, Ascension is I mean, I'm very new in my role.

[00:23:03] I've come into a group of people who are well established and very strong, which is always

[00:23:08] a positive, a net positive. But I think looking across Ascension as an organization,

[00:23:16] the leadership is nimble. And I like that because I think there is a sense of

[00:23:26] nurturing and recognizing the need for building. That's important because

[00:23:37] when I was at GSK working for Maya, for example, and Maya's tough. Maya is not an easy leader.

[00:23:44] And that's I think what I like most about her is that she's at once very tough, very strong

[00:23:53] and a good leader and shepherd. And so she created an environment that she signaled and supported

[00:24:04] change, which is important. I don't the one statement I cannot tolerate in the workplace

[00:24:12] is we've tried that before. I can't stand it. I think it should be banned.

[00:24:18] And while I understand that sometimes people feel like ideas are being resurrected that

[00:24:27] seem like old hat, they weren't tried now. They weren't tried in today's environments.

[00:24:32] So let's try it again. And being open to change, to adapt to what's coming is everything. And I

[00:24:40] think you can have the really strong leaders, really smart people. But if they fail to

[00:24:46] recognize that, they're never going to move their organization forward.

[00:24:50] And how many states are you active in now or you have hospitals located in and

[00:24:57] are you are they expanding into other areas? Yeah, well, there are hospitals. I think

[00:25:03] you mentioned the footprint earlier and there are over 140 hospitals. I think looking at

[00:25:10] Ascension's future, Ascension is very focused on optimizing in the markets where we exist and

[00:25:20] pruning to grow, finding the best, it just best serve those communities. And of course,

[00:25:26] your community needs change. They expand and contract in different areas and different service

[00:25:32] lines. So I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on this, Jim, because I am very new

[00:25:38] at Ascension. And but the one thing I'm recognizing, one of my colleagues used this

[00:25:45] example or analogy, it's the Rubik's Cube that you can, the complexities of what hospitals are

[00:25:54] dealing with are incredible. And so it's how what care models look like, what

[00:26:04] payer models and mixes look like. You know, looking at pharma, what's happening in the pharma

[00:26:13] industry and what that will do to sort of help patients to not need hospitalization,

[00:26:21] reducing utilization in certain areas, and you're going to increase it in others.

[00:26:26] So it's probably a work force coming out of the classroom. Yep. And the workforce issues

[00:26:33] are particularly acute for hospitals, like getting the right staffing. I sat in on a meeting,

[00:26:43] a fly on the wall on a sort of logistics meetings at one of our hospitals that they have every

[00:26:48] single day and they're connected with a number of hospitals talking about the beds they have

[00:26:54] available and how they get people. It was amazing. I mean, I was stunned at the complexities

[00:27:01] that the nurse leaders have to deal with every single day. And when you then don't have the staffing

[00:27:09] to meet that, it's like 20 layers of supply chain from all different angles.

[00:27:17] It is and it's a universal issue. It's hospitals everywhere are facing the same challenges.

[00:27:24] And that sort of introduces other issues like, okay, so workforce development we know,

[00:27:30] I mean, our unemployment rate, of course, in this country nationwide looks pretty good today.

[00:27:35] But I still think, you know, I have kids who are in college right now. And if you look at

[00:27:41] what we could and should be doing in developing kids for professions where there are jobs

[00:27:46] available, there's so much opportunity there. And in a hospital particularly, it's not just

[00:27:54] nursing. I mean, it's such a myriad of talent that's needed. And there's so much potential there.

[00:28:01] So I think it's an exciting time and I'm very excited that Ascension's mission is so focused on

[00:28:09] the underserved. So you started the conversation with your interest in continuous learning and

[00:28:18] the kind of risk but also just leap that you took to Capitol Hill from being a teacher.

[00:28:23] And you've made, you know, continuous changes throughout your career. Every five years, every

[00:28:29] three years. What is one question that you ask yourself, whether it's learning based or just

[00:28:35] opportunity based? What's one question when you're thinking about taking on a new role or

[00:28:39] going to a new organization? Like how do you reach the decision I'm going to take that leap?

[00:28:46] Yeah, I love this Maggie. Well, it's not what does my stock portfolio look like because I

[00:28:51] don't have one obviously. And that's never been a driver for me. But what is, is an organization

[00:29:01] going back to that idea of openness to change? Because particularly when you're talking about

[00:29:08] healthcare, the environment is changing so rapidly that if the organization is not

[00:29:14] willing to change with it, it's not going to work. And when you have, you know,

[00:29:19] hospitals don't have the option to not serve patients. It's not an option. And particularly

[00:29:26] when you have a mission like Ascension has and you're building in areas in places where you have

[00:29:31] locations in places like Ascension has, that's not an issue. You're operating 24 hours a day,

[00:29:37] seven days a week, every single day of the year. So you have to be open to change.

[00:29:44] And it was interesting being in the hospitals in Kansas this week, hearing from people who were

[00:29:51] your where we are seeing successes and efficiencies being driven and things like optimization are in

[00:29:59] places where people are open to trying new things. And you know that that goes from the

[00:30:05] custodial staff, you know, through the surgical staff, everyone has to be willing to try it.

[00:30:11] And in our space, I think we get very hung up on our space meaning sort of like public affairs,

[00:30:20] public relations. We get hung up on the fact that we've established a set of relationships and so

[00:30:25] this should serve us for the rest of our career. But in fact, that's a small component that

[00:30:31] that relationship building is constant, and that the stakeholders of those relationships

[00:30:36] are constantly changing. One final question. How before we get into Maggie's going to ask you

[00:30:46] a couple questions we asked all the guests, but what how much traveling do you have to do

[00:30:52] going to onsite locations? So this job, it's, you know, we have, I want to visit

[00:31:02] a lot of our hospitals. My goal is to make it out to all of our markets. And so but the

[00:31:11] geography is relatively consolidated, I mean, we access sort of in the middle part of the country

[00:31:16] all the way, you know, from top to bottom, which is a contrast from, you know, working for

[00:31:22] plasma where we had in one year, I was in China, Korea, all over Europe, sounds terrific and was

[00:31:31] a great learning experience, but it's very taxing on someone with a family. So

[00:31:37] this works out great. And and I think getting to know places, I had never been to Wichita,

[00:31:44] Kansas. It was amazing. I mean, it was a terrific opportunity. So I'm really excited

[00:31:49] about that part of this. Wichita is a great city. I'm a native of Topeka so. Oh, you are.

[00:31:55] Yes, it was. I mean, the nicest people and beautiful prairie, you know, for miles. And

[00:32:05] when we when I took off, my flight was delayed. It was the obviously it was a big beautiful moon,

[00:32:12] but something about that moon over the prairie was really spectacular. The big skies of the planes

[00:32:19] are hard to describe. Yeah, breathtaking. Well, the two final questions we like to ask

[00:32:26] guests are where were you last? So you just said Wichita and when you were in Wichita,

[00:32:31] what was the best meal that you had or a good restaurant recommendation? And then where are

[00:32:36] you headed to next? What we like to do is share maybe where you're traveling to so that if

[00:32:42] somebody wants to reach out and make a connection, they can give you a food tip or a restaurant

[00:32:48] recommendation so that you are well fed when you are traveling. Oh my gosh, I'm not going to

[00:32:53] remember the name of the restaurant now, but there was it was in Wichita we ate at a

[00:33:02] of course it was a steak restaurant and it was fantastic. I didn't eat steak. Sorry,

[00:33:08] I don't eat red meat, but that's important to know somebody's gonna send you a food

[00:33:12] food rack. Right, I did have a fantastic scene.

[00:33:19] But I will also tell you that four days before that we were in Greece

[00:33:24] and my husband's family lives in Greece. We were not in Santorini or some fancy island. We go to

[00:33:31] a small fishing village on the Gulf of Corinth. So if anyone is traveling to Greece on the

[00:33:38] mainland but wants to go to the most spectacular seaside villages in the world, I'm happy to

[00:33:44] give you some recommendations. And then where are you headed to next?

[00:33:50] I don't have a trip on the books, but I'm trying to get to Wisconsin to visit our Wisconsin market.

[00:34:00] So I'm hoping that'll be Milwaukee. I'm somewhat familiar with Milwaukee having worked for

[00:34:06] Tom Barrett, but I would love recommendations for restaurants in Milwaukee. Fantastic.

[00:34:13] Well thank you Amy. It was a pleasure having you and we're wishing you all the most success in

[00:34:19] your new role with Ascension. Thank you Maggie and Jim really appreciate this.

[00:34:23] Amy, that was great. And for our listeners have a great week and we will see you next Monday.